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The Male Gaze vs. The Men: Feminist Theory Part 2 | The Whole Plate: Episode 6

7/09/2017
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The term "male gaze" isn't *just* about how women are depicted on screen by male filmmakers (although it is... largely that) -- male gaze can be used to describe how men portray other men, too.
Despite what your gender studies professor says.
Twitter: @thelindsayellis
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Lindsay Ellis
Lindsay Ellis
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  • M H

    M H

    2 दिन पहले

    i came here for the male gays, I got blah blah blah feminism :(

  • TheOtherGirlInTheRoom

    TheOtherGirlInTheRoom

    11 दिन पहले

    Female Gaze: George of the Jungle (1997)

  • TheRichardson711

    TheRichardson711

    27 दिन पहले

    I'm confused. Males gaze includes anything shot by men for a male audience? But also everything shot by a woman if it copies the way men did it before? I honestly dont understand the definition.

  • Seymour Disapproves

    Seymour Disapproves

    29 दिन पहले

    "Michael, that was really sexist."
    "I'm not sexist, I hate everyone equally."
    "So you're QUIRKY sexist, Michael!"

  • mirthfulArtist

    mirthfulArtist

    महीने पहले

    I don't think "Micheal Bay doesn't respect men" is quite accurate, especially framed against his treatment of women.
    Even though his protagonists are massively flawed, he still rewards the incompetent male heroes at the end-- often with women as the prize. He also never really addresses the flaws you listed as anything other than surface-level jokey jokes, since like you said his protags don't really have arcs or character growth. Like Bay doesn't seem to think that having a violent temper or fragile ego is a bad thing.
    His characters look like toxic masculine parodies to us, but to him I bet they're just relatable heroes.

  • Glenn Saunders

    Glenn Saunders

    महीने पहले

    What a difference a couple years makes. Happy with how movies have changed now?

  • Francisco Crespo

    Francisco Crespo

    महीने पहले

    I kinda like Michael Bay now

  • mike goulis

    mike goulis

    महीने पहले

    Never seen these movies but holy shit these look like they suck ass

  • Yungandrekless

    Yungandrekless

    महीने पहले

    ...did she call it the Lincoln Monument?

  • Darmouthable

    Darmouthable

    महीने पहले

    The real kick in the pants about the 4-years older boyfriend thing (which you can read for yourself on the placard in the shot), is it only applies to someone at most 3 years older, so it's still statutory rape under that law.

  • The Computer Artist

    The Computer Artist

    महीने पहले

    has hetero female no gaze?
    no sexual desire toward men? or is the equivalent of male gaze for female a fairy tale handsome rich prince?

    it's a very personal subject to me cause i longtime think so,
    that women had no sexual desire and do make love with us for our pleasure in some sort of pitty for us, men, since they were and still are soooooo good at masking their mind, and to contain their desire(except in front of celebrities,just think of your sister lurking or "gaze" to her favorite singer...).

    what a shock to discover that contrary to what they said-it will be a sad trope with them,wink wink,
    -most women like sex,
    -most women talk a lot about it when they 're between themselves and they even masturbate(the very same women will tell you " no sex before mariage ")just as much as us,
    -most women also start to have sex more often earlier than us, at a very young illegal age with very old men(i don't support those men in any form of way) wich whom they try litteraly every position in kamasutra and sexual fantasy, but when come your turn, you young naive boy of their age, they will tell u they don't do such things,
    -most women had litteraly a sea of opportunities when it come to money and life options, and they don't even need to be a Dubai class model to had said opportunities , just being a young healty women, they had at least ten men, hitting them every single day on social media, and most of them will be happy to trow money on them for just the opportunity to meet them irl.

    most women can have an easy life simply by playing with men hopes to get in their panties, i sincerely respect girls who don't abuse this power, if i was at their place i would definitively abuse such power,cause as a man, being faithfull to your whife when u don't have ten women hitting on you every day is pretty damn easy, not every men can be Dicaprio. but when u had what most women want,watever it is look material or persona, and still stay faithfull to your aging gaining weight percievely less attractive romantic partner, that, is true commitement.

    but still, most women are constantly complaining about everything wrong with being a woman, like it was some sort of traedy because menstruations and pregnancy, life is so unfair for them, men are objectifying them, as if men for them was'nt objectified as tool to fix thing in their life they don't "feel like" to handle, poor women, they doesn't have it all...

  • Matthew A. Whiting

    Matthew A. Whiting

    महीने पहले

    "Sincerity and vulnerability in men is often ridiculed". Yeah, I felt that. And the sad thing is that if a guy tries to bring it up, he's ridiculed for that too. But, it isn't all bad. Sometimes people recognize that guy's sincerity and vulnerability and praise him for being willing to show that side of himself 🙂.

  • Alea Anderson

    Alea Anderson

    महीने पहले

    Check out this video on Sam Witwicky by Folding Ideas - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNspkOjZ0ac

  • Apostolos Papadimitriou

    Apostolos Papadimitriou

    महीने पहले

    Do you want to appear more white than you are?

  • MisterHild

    MisterHild

    महीने पहले

    I can't the only guy that is bitter that there is neither an accurate depiction of men or women in most film. Or maybe there is and I don't watch the right movies. I respect the men and women in my life, but maybe they don't make great movies. I am writing a book and trying to write some genuine characters. But I reread my own stuff and hate it...people are hard to write about.

  • Wall St Tech

    Wall St Tech

    महीने पहले

    The protagonists ARE the Autobots.

  • SoloBrick

    SoloBrick

    2 महीने पहले

    Now I want someone to do a video essay of Michael Bay in the angle in which he is an alien making movies for other aliens in a genre of parody of the human species.

  • André Lima

    André Lima

    2 महीने पहले

    peter doesn't? woopsie

  • Alea Anderson

    Alea Anderson

    2 महीने पहले

    IMO some of the best scenes in Transformers 4 are those between Cade and Optimus. They aren't played for laughs and there is a genuine sense of sincerity in those moments between them.

  • Rhett Bradbury

    Rhett Bradbury

    2 महीने पहले

    Wonderfully interesting and insightful. Left me wondering, though – are there examples of 'female gaze' in cinema?

  • michael gorz

    michael gorz

    2 महीने पहले

    i don't want to be creappy, but these topick is so metta to me when im wathing lindsay.

  • Dracannia

    Dracannia

    2 महीने पहले

    "based my character off of bay" Goooood BLESS John Turturro for admitting that! XDD

  • Harrison Lane

    Harrison Lane

    2 महीने पहले

    I've seen transformers, maybe 3 times, and I forgot that the glasses were a main plot point

  • Raven Godwin

    Raven Godwin

    2 महीने पहले

    After giving it some thought. I realized the Rian Johnson's The Last Jedi falls yields considerable understanding of Rian Johnson's ideas of masculinity.
    Basically, EVERY other Male lead other then Kylo, is a "manbaby", and Luke most of all. Also it seems that Rian Johnson has a problem with Father Figures.
    Snoke and Luke are both humiliated by Kylo Ren, and Kylo Ren is the mouthpiece for Rian's overall message of postmodernism subversion. Quintessentially, he doesn't have anyone else with another salient viewpoint that actually contrasts the one Kylo puts forward, "Let the past die, kill it if you have to."
    Then he emasculates Finn by Rose's finger wagging mentoring, emasculates Poe through Holdo's "I told you so" and "obey!" dog-training, and Luke gets the worst of it, "The Hero" becomes a sad nobody who's last pathetic accomplishment gets him killed.
    Meanwhile, Kylo Ren kills "the emperor", gets the speech that declares the theme, one ups Rei "the protagonist" by revealing that she too is a nobody, and then he is thrown out as the ONLY sexually desirable male.(shirtless scene's with Rei, where as Finn is basically hit on by his "babysitter")
    Rian Johnson displays his own contempt for other men in The Last Jedi, and that's why many long time fans are outraged.

    • Raven Godwin

      Raven Godwin

      2 महीने पहले

      Also, the antagonist or "bad guy" who murdered his "father figures"(3) is the person who's painted as "enlightened" and correct. That's like having Vader be right that he and Luke should "conquer the galaxy"! It's a major "WTF!?" moment, 🤪🤪🤪

  • Nick Jones

    Nick Jones

    2 महीने पहले

    I love the male gays!

  • Keoma Fernandes

    Keoma Fernandes

    2 महीने पहले

    Whoa!!!

  • AnubisTV

    AnubisTV

    2 महीने पहले

    we don't use the term "female gaze" because we already have the word "lesbians."

  • ö. . ,

    ö. . ,

    2 महीने पहले

    Would people please stop calling Marky Mark Mark Wahlberg?

  • Guinevere X.I.V.

    Guinevere X.I.V.

    3 महीने पहले

    Preach it, sista.

  • DIVAD291

    DIVAD291

    3 महीने पहले

    Wait im so confused...why would the female gaze be the inversion of male gaze? Why isn't it the evolutionary equivalent to males treating females as sexual objects???? I.e females treating males as objects to select.

    Why do we only ever talk about the less common form of objectification??? Oh right...

  • Logan Lavoice

    Logan Lavoice

    3 महीने पहले

    Sam is how Bay sees the people who like Transformers.
    Simmons is how Bay sees himself.
    Kade is how Bay wishes men could be.

  • Dion Santana

    Dion Santana

    3 महीने पहले

    So magic "mike xxl" falls under the purvue of "male gaze".... You say that like it makes any kind of sense.... hilarious....

  • Ahmed Aay

    Ahmed Aay

    3 महीने पहले

    This is a very long way to say Fuck Michael Bay and the Transformers franchise

  • CthulhuianBunny

    CthulhuianBunny

    3 महीने पहले

    4:45 "Don't Mess with Texas" isn't meant to be some combative statement (though I'm sure there are some 4x4-driving d-bags who appropriated it to be), it was the slogan for an anti-littering campaign.

  • Μαριάνθη ΒΑΣΙΛΕΙΑΔΟΥ

    Μαριάνθη ΒΑΣΙΛΕΙΑΔΟΥ

    3 महीने पहले

    So Michael Bay sucks generally.

  • bruh

    bruh

    3 महीने पहले

    I love this video. However I don't aggree with the footage from the shower scene from Carrie being in here, although at first glance it seems to belong. In carrie there is a constant theme of contrasting ideals of teenage life, followed by horrible dissapointment. The same can be said for the shower scene, that starts of as a promise of development and sexuality and then changes to the fear of the body changing and the horrible way these girls react to her changing body. It's almost like it uses the male gaze as a lure or bait to trick audiences into viewing the movie a certain way, then to shock and change it, as it's mechanism of achieving horror and fear.

  • Drew Oda

    Drew Oda

    3 महीने पहले

    um this might be #demonetized.

  • Small Umbrella In The Rain

    Small Umbrella In The Rain

    3 महीने पहले

    What worries me is the effect is these films have to our culture where women are already drowning into internalised misogyny.

  • Bravo Halo

    Bravo Halo

    3 महीने पहले

    So:
    Female gaze doesn't exist because because oversexualized physical portrayals just mirrors male gaze, ultimately becoming it.
    ...but...
    Male gaze exists as affirmation and projection of a worldview far beyond oversexualized physical portrayals.
    Everything else is brilliant, but this kind of by-the-moment redefinition of terms is a pretty onerous logical fallacy. Feel free to watch Lifetime and Hallmark to see female gaze.

    • bea haxby

      bea haxby

      महीने पहले

      Bravo Halo yeah it begs the question ‘okay then what’s your solution? If you don’t like flipping the script entirely what would you prefer to see? No sex at all?’

  • Random thoughts

    Random thoughts

    3 महीने पहले

    So what? As if one needs inherently to respect people, be it men or women. You don’t explain why it’s wrong or bad not to

  • Ben Sambo

    Ben Sambo

    3 महीने पहले

    Fucked up! Michael Bay can't respect anyone and doesn't deserve to be a Hollywood level director. The guy has no taste and no vision. He lives to serve THE ALMIGHTY DOLLAR. Chuh-ching $$ AMEN!!!!!!

  • WisdomSeeker

    WisdomSeeker

    3 महीने पहले

    I honestly remember as a kid when I watched the scene in Transformers when the girl open the car and I remember kinda being traumatized by it.

  • THE CMOOSE

    THE CMOOSE

    3 महीने पहले

    Sam dies off screen in 5

  • CassieSol919

    CassieSol919

    3 महीने पहले

    Michael Bay just hates the Transformers audience. Simple as that.

  • William Chamberlain

    William Chamberlain

    3 महीने पहले

    To be fair(?), Barbarella was a straight-up exploitation film from day 1.

  • Adrian Voer

    Adrian Voer

    3 महीने पहले

    I think the points you make are great, but I'd make a small adjustment to your thesis that Michael Bay doesn't respect men much (if any) more than he respects women: Michael Bay is a shining example of extremely normal sexist views--which harm and constrict men at the same time as they ignore, sexualize, and inflict violence upon women. Sexism isn't just the denigration of women--in order to describe women as "other" it unintentionally creates dichotomies which do not really reflect well on men either, but the sexist men scramble to embrace the awfulness anyway, because the framing allows them to still be more powerful than women and doesn't require that they question their own behavior or motivations. It's not that Michael Bay is condescending to his male audience (I think he does condescend to Shia LeBouf's character, but because he thinks he's a nerd, not because he's male). All the meaningless male yelling? That's just Bay's normal. It's not his judgement--it's his everyday.

  • TinyCat127

    TinyCat127

    3 महीने पहले

    She's really out here taking shots huh

  • carlotta4th

    carlotta4th

    3 महीने पहले

    Wouldn't "female gaze" be better associated with chick flicks instead of typical "male gaze" like shots? You know--those films where the woman is a blank slate the woman can imagine herself onto (theoretically) with a hot, rich guy vying for her every attention even though she has no interesting qualities. If the male fantasy is a woman slathering seductively in a shower, the female fantasy might be rich hotty adoration.

  • AlternateHistoryHub

    AlternateHistoryHub

    3 महीने पहले

    Michael Bay hates literally anything not Michael Bay......or cocaine

  • MountainRider7

    MountainRider7

    3 महीने पहले

    lol, I commented on the previous video that I didn't understand why anyone watched these movies and you explain why in this video. Thanks! It's really sad to contemplate that there are a lot of people who can watch Sam Witwicky for several hours and think, "I like this guy because he's just like me!"

  • SF442

    SF442

    4 महीने पहले

    5:15-5:45. I give you your "Keep the door open 3 inches" Stranger Things fandom. >_>

  • fjordexplorer

    fjordexplorer

    4 महीने पहले

    Love the video. Absolutely do not love Michael Bay. One subject that just isn't sitting right with me though: female gaze supposedly not being "a thing" on the basis that it uses the same techniques created to fetishize female bodies by men. Doesn't that imply that women can't convey their fetishes in film without relying on a male technique? And why would fetishizing male bodies necessarily be an inversion of male gaze? Both men and women fetishize the opposite sex, so why should we think about visual depictions of that desire solely in terms of the male version? It just seems limiting and dismissive to suggest that female gaze can't be "a thing."

    • bea haxby

      bea haxby

      महीने पहले

      fjordexplorer no, not everyone fetishes the opposite sex. Some people are gay.

  • Veronica Watson

    Veronica Watson

    4 महीने पहले

    I fucking hate these movies

  • Phos9

    Phos9

    4 महीने पहले

    Michael Bay characters are weird, everyone, even people who are ostensibly longtime friends, seem to despise everyone else and use any opportunity to tear down or belittle them UNLESS they want to have sex with them or it’s a gay joke. They seem to just barely tolerate the presence of each other in all other situations.

  • BaldingClamydia

    BaldingClamydia

    4 महीने पहले

    Maybe I've been ruined by tv, but if much rather see a naked lady than man. Penises aren't cute. I've never gotten a dick pic and said "awww ty." Lol I realize that we're not treated well in movies, but it really doesn't bother me. 😟

  • Mansaku Nabi

    Mansaku Nabi

    4 महीने पहले

    Lady, you're so funny. i'm so subbed! Wonderfully concise explanations from a nerdy geek or geeky nerd.. Either way, good stuff hoping for more.

  • tarrker

    tarrker

    4 महीने पहले

    I've always hated the way that what's between your legs is supposed to define who you are as a person. Men are this thing and women are that thing and never shall the two meet. Meanwhile, 13 year old me was saying "Well that isn't me. That isn't me at all." and society at large said "Then you a pussy". x_x

  • jzoobs

    jzoobs

    4 महीने पहले

    The deli of racism screeching
    Oh god

  • Paul Adams

    Paul Adams

    4 महीने पहले

    I can't remember which video of yours sucked me down this rabbit hole, but thank you. I've learned a lot about film theory, critical theory in general, and lost a lot of my prejudice against postmodernism. Looking forward to seeing and learning more!

  • jirakj

    jirakj

    4 महीने पहले

    Oh my god! I've always been wondering why I hate these movies so much. You hit it right on the head, Lindsay.

  • Director for Plastic

    Director for Plastic

    4 महीने पहले

    1:00 is that legal on YouTube?

  • reyrapids63

    reyrapids63

    4 महीने पहले

    Why is there a car crash noise at 11:49?
    I like to think it is the sound of their male egos crashing into one another.

  • Jamie Finn

    Jamie Finn

    4 महीने पहले

    Wouldn't female gaze only not be a thing if there was a significant difference to how, if left in isolation, the 'female' language is to the male language? Wouldn't it be fair to say (in time, as the field is still so male dominated) that the language would eventually become a shared one. One that shares the gaze of us all, depending on which pov we see the world? I could see the argument being made that the norms of film have been set by men, but I would be interested in hearing how techniques would actually differ when trying to pull off the female gaze in a cinematic world where women founded it. Obviously it's hard to answer hypothetically but it's a good thought to have if nothing else.

  • Wonderlust King

    Wonderlust King

    4 महीने पहले

    Yeah a lot of filmmakers don’t respect men. Not quite as many as dont respect women...but the numbers of both are way too high.
    Its one of the reasons I’ve kinda stayed away from action films as a man....I mean I enjoy some...but I find that they frequently have a male gaze that objectifies women and stereotypes men as something I find antithetical to my concept of masculinity

  • Priyanka Adhikari

    Priyanka Adhikari

    4 महीने पहले

    What an interesting point!

  • lipstickandapplejuice

    lipstickandapplejuice

    4 महीने पहले

    i'd LOVE to see how bumblebee (the new transformers where a woman is the main character) fits into this!

  • Anthony Johnson

    Anthony Johnson

    4 महीने पहले

    Making sex jokes is mysogonistic?

  • Juan Toledo

    Juan Toledo

    4 महीने पहले

    Magic Mike is a subversion? O_o

  • Juan Toledo

    Juan Toledo

    4 महीने पहले

    You made me think of Duck Dodgers somehow. Daffy is really flawed (egotistical, sexist, narcissistic, you name it), but even though it seems like dumb luck always puts him on top, as if justifying or even encouraging his flaws, these flaws never actually get him nowhere and have very clear negative consequences, usually putting him at the butt of a joke. He still never learns though.

  • Alkuf100

    Alkuf100

    4 महीने पहले

    0:58 what movie pls?